Rules..?

[lgb3d]

There are and were a lot of games made with the g c s..

I like the idea if the exhaustive list of dos gcs games.. as well I understand we are not hosting file storage, but we can link from here...

understanding any of this found online is essentially freeware... would it be wrong to upload games I found elsewhere to "my Dropbox account", and link to them in the showroom.. as long as I give credit to who made it..

as well this would give us a place to talk about the specific game and features of it and how the Creator utilize the engine. I'm sure we're all aware various users in the past pulled off some pretty cool tricks.

For example this scene in the dos game ultimate by dog software... They have a moving cube made up of four walls that moves quick through the room in a circular pattern and you have to avoid it as it does damage the player. Those thinking outside the box making the gameplay more interesting obstacles and tricks.


just imagining if someone interested in the gcs found this site it might be a benefit if gcs games were available for download here. As well if it was open discussion of how things were done in that specific title and have a better understanding of the engine and the capabilities..

Just asking the question because I don't want to do anything disrespectful or wrong.

[Mystery]

I'd love to go through various games and discuss how the developers did achieve certain effects.
These discussions are a great idea and could be done regardless of downloads in this forum. Documenting how and what things can be achieved in the engine would be a nice project.

As for the downloads, I could upload everything I have somewhere, but I'm completely unsure about a bunch of these titles. Some are shareware/freeware, some use copyrighted material and some might be full versions. Checking the legality of almost 100 titles is a bunch of work, unfortunately. Let's see if we can come up with some idea to preserve these games. I recovered all but two games from my own data loss recently, but that's already two games that will most likely never be seen again, because they weren't on the internet ever. We should try to create some sort of an archive.

But these seem to be two different projects. Documenting the possibilities of the engine and archiving the existing games for the future generations of DOS GCS developers

[lgb3d]

I understand where you're coming from, for example a game that might have sound effects from Duke Nukem 3D... Or how mod-g uses the Sprite of that shotgun enemy from Doom. I believe the important part to understand when sharing links to download these programs, we are not selling them, we are sharing them. The same as anyone who made a mod or in Dooms case wad

Someone archiving for prosperity is legal... but then again I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on the radio

On the other hand just before Christmas another YouTuber "orgamesmic" uploaded a video playthrough of Santa's rescue as if no one had done that before... the interesting part is in the video they informed the viewer that they had childhood experience with the gcs, and had difficulty making stairs. So I comment on the video, explaining how to do Advanced things with stairs and they were definitely interested although it's a engine they have not used in a very long time... Making me really thank it would be nice to make tutorials of these various abilities of the gcs, for potential game developers, and at the least to properly document this engine as if what we're creating is a time capsule.

So sharing old computer programs might potentially be a catch-22, but conversations and tutorials are definitely a plus.

My most recent High is when contacting these YouTubers interested in Retro Gaming... they are definitely interested in doing playthroughs and giving us exposure, if done right it might attract attention and direct people who have those childhood memories or experience with the gcs to join us in pursuing further exploration and creation. So for now it seems like what we're creating is a time capsule, might aswell make it interesting

[AunCollective]

I'm gathering all of my Pie in the Sky GCS games together to put on archive.org as a single collection. If either of you has a comprehensive list I could use as a baseline to see what I'm missing or what I already have but don't have cataloged under this GCS, that would be much appreciated.

Probably wouldn't hurt to research what happened to Pie in the Sky Software, as well as any licensing agreements for the GCS itself.

I'll start amassing contact info, or at least information that could be used to eventually track down contact info, for as many of these games as I can. I'd hate for this subculture to have many of its artifacts lost as a result of legality and lack of access.

If there's anything in particular you two are trying to track down or otherwise working on archiving, feel free to let me know and I'll help as I'm able to. I'm currently trying to organize my over 200,000 games / over 250 TB of games / related materials into something that could actually be useful for others and am currently working on organizing some of the 80s and 90s GCS games(ZZT, MegaZeux, Game-Maker, Pie in the Sky, Pinball Construction Set) and BYOND-related materials, so I wouldn't be shocked if I have something that's been believed lost-to-time buried within these files.

[Mystery]

My current re-constructed archive of DOS GCS Games has 113 known games of which I've managed to get 94 (3 are incomplete or don't work correctly).

I'm 100% positive that there are still a bunch of games out there that we haven't discovered, especially games that were just put on some random magazine disc as shareware in a zip/exe file.

Here's the list of currently known games: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B4QMGm_yYNNtskwggLBG9kKZqRwwQo2I5tKRRWTJ9QQ

Pie in the Sky Software, at least Kevin Stokes, is still technically around. As for the legality of the GCS: Apparently Kevin Stokes doesn't care about any Copyright of the regular GCS anymore.
There was a pro version of the GCS with more access to the source code, which is currently lost. I've contacted Kevin Stokes a couple of years ago about it and he doesn't want anyone to get their hands on it, because he's worried people will come back to him for technical support and he doesn't want that. But it might be that he's changed his mind over the years.

There are a few games that use this advanced version of the GCS (Darkness of Space, Escape P.O.W., Life's Battle and Subterraneans). So far I didn't have any luck in finding the developers and asking them if they still have their version of the GCS somewhere.
There might be more games out there that use a modified HUD, which is why they might fly a bit under the radar when looking for GCS games.


As for me: I'm looking for all games in my list that aren't green, or if they're yellow colored, I'd like to find a working/complete version. And of course, any game that's NOT on the list.
But I'm only interested in the DOS GCS


Looking forward to seeing what's going to come out of your project. If you need any games from my list, just drop me a private message.

[chris]

"For example this scene in the dos game ultimate by dog software... They have a moving cube made up of four walls that moves quick through the room in a circular pattern and you have to avoid it as it does damage the player. Those thinking outside the box making the gameplay more interesting obstacles and tricks."

Oh wow, I'm the creator of Ultimate! and I remember the crush walls. I'm guessing I was inspired by Rise of the Triad. Industrial Killers has a similar trap near the end. The trick is just changing the position of the animated wall and putting a blast radius on it. But yeah, there weren't very many games that utilized moving animations.

My other game Metalhead had several neat tricks. An elevator, rooms above rooms, lighting effects, crumbling floor trap, an "enemy" you have to guide through the level while protecting him from traps, etc.

"I'm 100% positive that there are still a bunch of games out there that we haven't discovered, especially games that were just put on some random magazine disc as shareware in a zip/exe file."

There was game about the Bill Clinton Scandal back in the day, I don't remember the name, but I don't see it listed. You were in the White House, there were various 90s politicians, and the humor was adult. I guess it's lost to time at this point.

"There was a pro version of the GCS with more access to the source code, which is currently lost."

Would love to get my hands on a copy of that. Whatever happened to Kevin Stokes? It looks like he shut his website down.

[lgb3d]

Chris thank you for your participation now I want to check out Metalhead. I'm currently working on a project that's been in the making for some time. I titled it Castle Death Race you can find screenshots and videos of it here in the work in progress string. I'm hoping to complete it this year , being an adult with a real job is somewhat discouraging, what I would not give for a time machine. Recently I made a spinning blade pillar, similar to the one found in Rise of the Triad what an influential game. It's truly amazing what we can achieve with the power 3D engine. Don't be a stranger

[lgb3d]

Chris.. I have been experimenting with Metalhead this afternoon, very interesting. Although it is a bit confusing.. I am blown away by the theatrics, grenade flying into the room, flashing lights... Dark rooms, use of universal registers very interesting level design.. I really like what I see especially for a Dos engine production.. Amazing!

On another note if anyone can find that Bill Clinton scandal era game I would love a swing at that, sounds taboo... I wonder if Mr Stokes had a hand in that one? just from your description it sounds phenomenal.

[chris]

Nice, I'll have to check out Castle Death Race

I'm hoping to complete it this year , being an adult with a real job is somewhat discouraging

Tell me about it. If I had the time I'd love to put together a tech demo sometime for the DOS engine, I remember a lot of old cool tricks. For instance, the engine lets you create slanted polygons, but the level editor doesn't support creating them. I should do a writeup sometime on how to do it. You can also create doors that rotate on a hinge instead of slide.

I have been experimenting with Metalhead this afternoon, very interesting. Although it is a bit confusing..

I was 13 when I made that game and yeah it's a confusing mess that is basically an alpha version. Seems like the whole game is covered in cheap booby traps, the game in general is pretty unfair and frustrating. Thanks for the kind words though, it was definitely flashy and... unique I guess. I had a lot of ideas for it but the project was lost in a HDD crash.

On another note if anyone can find that Bill Clinton scandal era game

For the life of me I can't find it anywhere, but I don't remember the name either. I doubt Stokes was involved but it was actually a well-put-together game for GCS. Lots of original art and sound effects as I remember. I was young and didn't really get the humor, but my dad was pretty pissed and deleted it, lol. He always hated Bill Clinton.

[lgb3d]

Chris... in response,

Slanted polygons... are you talking about a horizontal slant, or a vertical slant?

I've discovered if I recall correctly in the engine on a polygon if you put a negative integer in the attributes of a polygon I forget which of the four boxes it makes it slant horizontally. Works on polygons but not platforms. I remember when I initially discovered this by mistake I thought to myself I could make a platform that went diagonal across the room... My attempt was a failure.

As I am using version 1.3 for Windows one of the demo levels had vertically slanted polygons, that could be used for archways or what not... But due to the hardware I'm using and utilizing Windows XP it does not render them correctly...

Currently I have a tech guy building me a retro machine, from old Hardware he has some parts he's having to shop for and Order... in hopes that it will help me complete Castle Death Race. I've noticed there's a few graphical glitches some which had to do with video card, as well as my computer clock speed or refresh rate. I want to make sure when I finish the game that it displays correctly for others.

As well I remember and I believe it was terminal terror, doors that swing on a pivot point as you described.. I know the engine's capable of it because I've seen it done. But it would be very interesting to understand how to make the engine do that.

I do understand some aspects of the game can be altered outside of the engine through various text documents which are compiled at the time of gameplay..

If you ever do get that down time (enough to toy with the gcs engine) I would love to read tutorials on these type topics.

I'm just assuming these tweaks you described might occur in (objdefxx.txt) or (univxx.txt)..? As there's no instructions for these documents, it's difficult for me to read them, but I get the gist what's happening in them..


So far this year I have not been making much Headway on my project, but any chance I do get is very rewarding.

After playing Metalhead I got a few more ideas of things to incorporate into my game... thanks

I love watching youtube videos or playing these old GCS games because so many of them employed their own little tricks that make the gameplay more interesting.

[Saturdaynight]

Great to see this board is still active and it looks like we have more new members.

Mystery, What two games are you missing?

lgb3d, I know that the Doom sprites were released under the GNU license some time back, by Id Software. But eventually I was planning on replacing those sprites with something I was working on. But that never happened. I'm still have the files. I just haven't done any work on that game in ages.

I think it terms of licensing I did not want this site turning into an @band0nw@re site. ProBoards actively searches and shuts those type of sites down. This site is more about sharing development ideas and a place for GCS creators to discuss what's on their minds as well as showing their creations.

[lgb3d]

When I'm away from this side I'm constantly "surfing the net".. searching for ideas to employ with the GCS or the missing link to my puzzle..

On YouTube I've been watching videos about the Doom mod community, and game AI type topics. It's been helping give me ideas on how to tweek the "4th.txt" for my enemies, making game play more fast-paced an interesting.

There's a doom mod called realism 2.. so I'm watching a playthrough when out of nowhere an image hit me so hard I pressed pause. It was the polar bear sprite from Xmas project directory and palate enemy files..

I've put some serious time into searching for that elusive creature.. the footage I found it in is not all that old. Now I know he exists, somewhere on some game developers hard drive.



The game playthrough I seen him in had countless enemy types many of which were from games of a bygone era. Watching was really mind-blowing, quite the spectacle.

So thank you for clearly explaining the reason why we should not bring specific type topic/content into this group, as doing so might compromise our longevity here.

[Saturdaynight]

The game is called Terror in Christmas Town. Let me dig through my files and see if I can find that. I downloaded a massive amount of files from the old community repository.

[Mystery]

May 16, 2022 8:08:03 GMT -5 Saturdaynight said:

Great to see this board is still active and it looks like we have more new members.

Mystery, What two games are you missing?

lgb3d, I know that the Doom sprites were released under the GNU license some time back, by Id Software. But eventually I was planning on replacing those sprites with something I was working on. But that never happened. I'm still have the files. I just haven't done any work on that game in ages.

I think it terms of licensing I did not want this site turning into an @band0nw@re site. ProBoards actively searches and shuts those type of sites down. This site is more about sharing development ideas and a place for GCS creators to discuss what's on their minds as well as showing their creations.

From my original (lost) archive I'm missing D-Day and Elapse. Those were sent to me by someone via email, a contact which I've long lost since then. So they were probably not online or on any magazine disc at any time.

But while rebuilding my collection I've also discovered a ton of previously undocumented titles, so in the end I've gained more than I've lost.

Here's the list of known/found/missing titles: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B4QMGm_yYNNtskwggLBG9kKZqRwwQo2I5tKRRWTJ9QQ/edit#gid=0

[Technopeasant]

May 16, 2022 8:08:03 GMT -5 Saturdaynight said:

lgb3d, I know that the Doom sprites were released under the GNU license some time back, by Id Software. But eventually I was planning on replacing those sprites with something I was working on. But that never happened. I'm still have the files. I just haven't done any work on that game in ages.

This is NOT true. Only the source code to Doom was released under the GPL, but all the game assets remain proprietary.

You could easily replace them with assets from Freedoom however, which seeks to remedy that issue.

freedoom.github.io/